Help me catch Fish

[Krackers27]

Hi all, firstly Professor I love your strategy course, its been a great read so far and i'm currently in module 3 working my Bankroll up to $57 (currently its at $46). I am finding it difficult to play at the 5c/10c tables. I'm following the chart but just getting frustrated that initially I would raise 4-5x bb, I am still getting chased down by at least 4 runners. Because of this I will even up my raise to $1 pre flop but this only encourages more to play lotto. I'm trying to see how this works in my advantage as with the amount of callers i get I do not attempt to bluff the pot if i do not hit as any pair for some of these players are good to go. I think i'm about to answer my own question but i dare say my profits should keep rising and its only a matter of time before i make the nuts and take down a decent size pot and make up for all my lost pre flop raises.

Sorry but I think what i'm trying to say is wouldn't it be more beneficial to play at tables with %30 avg players per flop? Don't get me wrong, i love to play fish just not a whole tables worth.

[Common_Man]

I would like to add to Krackers post before it is answered by the Professor or other 'savvy' forum member, as I think it bears some relevance to what Krackers is getting at..

having come across the course yesterday (which looks excellent by the way!) I was keen to get started and have my first crack at playing for real money - (I've been playing for 3 weeks with Play Money and felt ready).

Due to technical problems with Hollywood Poker site I was unable to make a deposit so instead I tried out the strategy on Party Poker (which I believe ought to deliver similar results, though perhaps slightly less profitable).

Begginning on a 0.05 / .10 cents NL longhand table and applying the strategy using the starting hand chart I found that the following always occurred:
Just about every time I performed an opening raise, all other players would fold. The same would inevitably happen if any other player made an opening raise. So, in effect, every good hand I was dealt and played paid no dividends whatsoever and after a while my stack was ebbing away. On the few occassions this didn't happen, the winning pots were so tiny they made little difference. At the same time, on every hand, many players would limp into the flop (so long as no-one had made a raise!) and then continue limping all the way through to the River. I always make notes on every player's stack when I enter the game, and after playing for an hour barely anyone's stack had changed at all (except mine!)! This all seemd a bit pointless so I left having lost 75% of my stack.

I then joined in a 0.25 / 0.50 cents game with a renewed stack of $15, after observing for a while. The character of play seemed to make more sense with player's making more significant wins and losses. However, the same phenomenom was occurring: 90% of the time any intial raise, however small, would be followed by everyone else folding, so the course strategy I wanted to follow just didn't stand a chance of succeeding. I lost 75% of my stack again before loosening my play a bit and chasing a few draws (using hand odds and pot odds..not just chasing foolishly!); but the biggest difference was made by simply never raising before the flop or turn - this would keep other players in the pot. I soon recouped all my losses from both games, and then quit.

My point is not to doubt the validity of the course..after all, maybe I should have just waited until I could get a game on Hollywood Poker and I suppose I disobeyed the rules a bit by doing my own thing. But surely the strategy is also relevant to poker rooms other than Hollywood Poker? From my own observations it seems that the higher the stakes game, the more chance your prescribed strategy has of working. What was going wrong here, and how wrong was I to play Party Poker instead of Hollywood Poker??

[The Professor]

Hi both,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

Common_Man - there is no reason the strategy shouldn't be effective at other poker rooms - the rooms in the course are just recommendations where we have found the course to work well at.

You've highlighted a general problem with lower limit tables, which is simply put, their unpredictability, in fact each of you have highlighted opposite problems, with Krackers getting too many people chasing even once the pot has been raised, and Common having a situation where everyone is folding to a raise and hence getting no action with our good hands.

It is situational, and you have to adapt the strategy to the situation as in Poker you can't just have a black and white plan of action as every decision and table situation is different.

It does get more predicatable as you move up the stake levels, with more "standard" play.

But on the lower limit tables, you will either have to switch tables until you find one that is working for the strategy, or adjust your actions to the table you are at.

If too many people are calling your raises (ie: more than 2 or so) then start to increase your raises. If they still come along for the ride, then start looking to take the pot down after the flop with significant pot size or more bets if the situation looks good.

If everyone is folding after an opening raise, then reduce the size of the raise to see if that makes any difference maybe to 2x the big blind, if you are still getting the cold shoulder then you can play the limping game and let more people into the pot, but this is at increased risk, as you are now at significantly increased risk of people catching cards against your hand, even if you are going in before the flop with the best hand. Or once again, you can switch tables and see if you can find a better suited table.

It's a hard one to advise on, as each situation can be so different.